I remember reading once... can't remember where... that sound deterents are too aversive and that its better to avoid using them. A sound deterent can consist of anything that makes a startling noise that gets the attention of your dog so that you can counter any unwanted behavior. Things that are often used as sound deterents are loud words (e.g. No! or Hey!), a bunch of keys, tins cans with coins in them, or training disks. You never are supposed to [i]hit[/] a dog with the noisy item, but it should startle them.

Do you think that throwing, for instance, a bunch of keys on the floor to get your dogs attention is too aversive? Are there better ways to do this? Give me your opinion on the subject.

I find that "quiet leadership" keeps me more calm and more in control of myself. As we all know, these are the two keys to leadership. If you are not in control, you cant expect your dog to follow your leadership. But that doesnt mean that there aren't a few times that one needs to be "heard".

To that end, Ive always used a bit of sound when I feel that I need to. I dont rely on sound all of the time, but I do use it to get a point across. My feeling has always been that Dogs use sound to relay information to each other, so it is only natural for us to relay infomation in the same way.

For instance: If I give the "sit" command and while sitting, one of my dogs moves, I simply give a "NO" or "AH-AH" followed by a hand signal to reset the command. It works everytime.

A quick verbal warning like "No" I think is warranted, but what about (for instance) when a dog is barking like mad at the door and you use a sound deterent to get him to stop for a second to countercondition, is that too aversive?

Steven_L wrote:

A quick verbal warning like "No" I think is warranted, but what about (for instance) when a dog is barking like mad at the door and you use a sound deterent to get him to stop for a second to countercondition, is that too aversive?

I think that as long as you are using the noise ONLY to get the dog's attention and you are able to phase it out over a period of time it is fine. Ive be doing this for years. Being able to phase out the noise means that the dog is learning what you want and eventually it responds to just a voice command.

But if you have to shake a can of nickles for the rest of the dog's life, he hasn't learned to obey you, he is only reacting to the noise.

On the other hand, using noise may be the only solution in some cases. For Instance: What if it is a service dog and the owner is a def or mute. Hearing and verbally empaired ppl have dog's ... and they ONLY work with sound.

My thought is that to much time is taken arguing the symantics. I guess that "an aversion" is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder!!!